Biberkrieger84 wrote:I can agree to dragon. Maybe you can use the demo instead of the firebat. I dont care about prabuty, who always says that a demo sucks on hell.

I like big explosions and he is the best to care of this.

If you know how to use him he is really good, even in the lategame. The rockets make dead-meat out of everything which want to rape the bunker.

Demoman is very good if he can aim his missles like this one game I was playing ( I was the demoman) we had lost all of our soldiers except for me and 2 other guys... we were on the dogs mission and we had to camp north of the first mission's pickup rendvous... When the dogs starting coming towards us we had about 6 of them... my missle pretty much one shot a dog... with napalm covering the ground killing other zombies... then the dogs rushed us big time so I nailed two dogs with one missle... we ended up living but only reason we did was because I was demoman and I can aim my missles.... He is a very important HERO! and very good at taking out them bosses.

Markgunnar wrote:I was trying to think of the best team to have when playing DOTD and this is what i think.

1. FIREBAT
2. ENGINEER
3. MEDIC
4. MEDIC
5. DEMO
6. MACHINEGUNNER
7. MACHINEGUNNER / ASSAULTMAN
8. SCOUT

I think with this team you can own the streets. What do you think the best team is?

In my opinion you can have any team you want, except you need a medic or two of course... but if your team knows what there doing.. you could easily(or the other way around hard) pull this off with any team.. all you need is a medic and a firebat.

well so far the only team i actuly know of that has beaten hell mode in us east is

medic
medic
marks
sniper
mg
scout
engi
assalt

but i realy have to agree with some of the people that it realy just depends on who is using the unit because if u know how to work a unit right anythig is good in nm and hell well exept mabe a rifleman =p

thats exactly the team constelation i talked about execpt assaultman. i would take firebat instead of assaultman since there is no primary weapon for assaultman on hell

firebat gets raped in hell mode

nope not if you got a pro as fb. i dont know the ppl you play with but i know a lot of ppl that survive as fb easily on hell

FB = Useless on hell, taking isn't really needed since you getting 1 hit by every boss.
I prefer to play with classes that supposed to avoid damage.
Smokes + Net >>>> Defensive aura + Matrix.

fb with flamethrower on hell > assman without any weapon.
defensive aura is also good for tanking small zombies

Dragonfire_92 wrote:nope not if you got a pro as fb. i dont know the ppl you play with but i know a lot of ppl that survive as fb easily on hell

Yep. Firebat is actually something I would think is much better than a 2nd person being able to use Net. Firebat is there on Hell not to tank the bosses but to tank/kill everything else.

Use the firebat the way Mish uses it and nothing gets close enough to actually hurt you lol.. I'd much rather have a zombie killer with the team rather than a Short ranged Anti-Boss Assaultman.

Yea, a boss is only one guy you can usually run away from him zombies tend to work in teams to get you when you turn a corner

MeanMeanie wrote:FB = Useless on hell, taking isn't really needed since you getting 1 hit by every boss.
I prefer to play with classes that supposed to avoid damage.
Smokes + Net >>>> Defensive aura + Matrix.

on hell, the firebat isn'T here to take hits from the bosses, but from all the other enemies coming at faster speeds and with more hitpoints than the other game modes... he is there to stop enemies from guetting to the core of the team....

only in normal should the firebat try to tank the boss...

I must add in Nightmare he is a perfect tank for purple doggy and the Mutated Experiments. Which are way stronger than normal enemies

Calling a unit useless just because of a mode is really pointless imo. Every unit has a task to perform on every difficulty. S3rius made the map very well when it comes to that ^^

"I am the best team" - LimeEmil

IMO firebat ios useful to and extent but srsly Assaultman + the MG;'s aura is a 2nd weapon on its own and the firebat cant nuke the big shit down near as fast, and doesn't have near as much utility as the assaultman.

Death_X_Magi wrote:"I am the best team" - LimeEmil

jelous much?

anyway since we know that we can win in hell with assault or firebat


Challenge:

how about for people who needs firebat in hell, choose assault to see if they can actually win
and for people who needs assault to win hell ,choose firebat to see if they can actually win

till now we on europe won hell with all classes in the team, i think we even had one rofleman in lol, but that doesnt change the fact that in b6 fb is much more usefull on hell.
Besides you cant count the net of the assman since the engineer should skill his net to lvl 5 on hell = perma ensnare on bosses which makes the assman kinda useless because when you perma ensnare the boss its much more usefull to have a fb who kills all the small zombies during all the others attack the boss

Okay... I just did a test run with just the engi... lvl 2 gen. is all I ever had... guys.. level 5 net basically makes it so the boss will NEVER move... I forget the statistics for lvl 5 net but lvl 4 is 6.5 seconds and a 9 second cool down time. Add Marksmans's disable and Engi's EMP and the boss will litterally NEVER move again rofl

Thus 2 net's are not needed... Generator is nice but at level 2 he can just steal the mg's mana. net is also only 25 mana to use so its not that much of a drainer. lol

Oh I just wanna add that Riflemen have imba DPS and will compete wiith MG's for kills after they hit lvl 5 lol.. little bastards never stop firing xD

A MG more than takes care of the small zombies during the game while the firebat takes a while to even tank them down. Also The assman does a shit load more damage then the firebat when nuking bosses or bone crushers. We've continually used firebat before and it was a complete waste of space in our team, the moment we started using the assaultman we started having huge sucess. As well the whole preference of the second net is not for jsut bosses, it can be used for all the additional bullshit creeps u get like Bone Crushers, when u have more than 5 on u at a time. The Net isnt the only useful support either, the assaultman also has a smoke grenade which is very helpful.

lol an MG barely does anything on hell by himself..... Firebat deals MUCH more damage than a MG on Hell mode.. napalm lvl 5 is much more effective than assaults 200 damage a shot slowly. Firebat does about that damage in the same amount of time it takes mg to shoot twice PLUS firebat has 75 dps/sec. making him deal way more damage overall WITH a larger range.

or maybe slightly less.. I forget the total assault range.. 850? cause I know FB's is 810 with lvl 5.

The assaultman has Rapid Fire + anti personal shells which is usually 600-900 crits per second on a boss so thats definately > firebat. Also Machine Gunners is one of the best overall classes to have in hell The damage they pull with HEI, Barret + TA is insane .

the best boss killer on hell is engineer. ON LVL 5 hes got a cooldown and a duration of 8 sec on the net = boss isnt able to move one step so you will never need an assaultman for a boss if you got a pro engi.

exactly... there is NO need for assault mans anti-boss rapid fire crit's if the boss cant move rofl.. and he sucks balls for single combat... Sniper is in your group for exactly that reason xD.

Btw thx Dragon for lvl 5 statistics... I could only remember lvl 4 xD
So instead of having the assaultman which is still a good choice, just not for his Net lol.
Much rather have a firebat who can defend us in a pinch than an assaultman who is basically doing a worse job than the sniper with 2000+ range doing WAY more damage, and Firebat deals more DPS overall than the assaultman =/

That is if you encounter just a single boss.

also, the thing about assman is that his damage output in dangerous situation is very dependant on his ammo....

if the boss comes and the assman got only 5 bullets in his clip, he'll just waste most of his time reloading rather than damaging the boss or killing the enemies around... while the firebat would say: "reload? how do you do that?"

an offensive firebat vs an offensive assman standoff would end up in more probably the firebat winning because the assman has to reload so often.... using his attack speed increase only makes him reload sooner while the irebat only has to wait for fireburst to be ready again for the big enemies...

a defensive firebat vs a defensive assman would end up with an assman dead way before the firebat too... the firebat is there to soak up damage while the assman maybe takes less, but is still made to kill enemies fast...

you guys only seems to have seen a defensive firebat vs an offensive assman and are comparing the two of them that way....

ok i know you guys been arguing about firebat and assman

each of you got an idea on how things work, so can we just respect each other's idea and just move on?